SALT LAKE CITY — Retired senior military officers told a University of Utah audience on Wednesday that clear core values, repeated training and personal accountability are the foundation of ethical leadership — and that following the law is a floor, not a ceiling, for good conduct.
Major General Andrew Turley, retired Air Force deputy general counsel for fiscal, ethics and administrative law, said military services embed core values in daily routines and training, and that applying those values in real situations is the hard part. "Values are simple. Applying them is tough," Turley said.
The panel at the Hinckley Institute of Politics’ forum on ethical leadership brought together Turley and two retired naval officers: Rear Admiral Len Herring, now active in environmental nonprofits, and Rear Admiral Todd Squire, a retired foreign-area officer. Jason Perry, director of the Hinckley Institute of Politics and vice president for government relations at the University of Utah, moderated the event.
Why it matters: panelists said military institutions create repeating ethical signals — oaths, core values and accountability systems — that produce predictable behavior under stress. They warned that civilian organizations often lack that institutional reinforcement and urged students and early-career professionals to develop personal routines that maintain standards.
Panelists emphasized three practical lessons. First, the military’s code and recurring training give service members a shared ethical frame. "Every service has established what we call core values," Turley said, listing the Air Force motto: "integrity first, service before self, excellence in all we do." Second, leaders must be willing to act on ethical concerns even when those choices are unpopular or personally risky. Squire described an episode aboard an aircraft carrier in which he waved off landings because a ship’s list made recoveries unsafe; afterward he was summoned to the bridge and berated, but the action protected pilots. "If you want me to take that responsibility, this is what I'm gonna tell you," Squire recalled telling his commanding officer.
Third, the law does not always resolve ethical dilemmas. Turley told the audience, "I view [the law] as a floor and not a ceiling," meaning compliance with statutes or regulations can still leave an option ethically questionable.
Panelists also discussed corruption and consequences. Herring and others referenced recent high-profile bribery cases affecting senior naval officers and contractors in the Asia-Pacific region — a cautionary example, they said, of what happens when personal gain overrides duty. Herring said such cases show "the principal issue . . . when you put self ahead of service and ahead of your obligation."
Speakers urged students to cultivate small, daily habits that sustain ethical judgment after they leave uniformed service. Suggestions included regular self-care to preserve judgment, candid conversation with peers and mentors, and a willingness to call out or refuse orders that violate law or conscience. Turley noted that the military affords the right to refuse unlawful orders, saying service members may "defend your own choice of ethical standing and refuse," though he added they should be prepared for the consequences.
The forum included a question-and-answer session with students and former interns. One student asked for an example of a wrong decision; panelists cited cases ranging from operational errors to criminal corruption and focused on learning from mistakes. Squire emphasized remediation and training: repetitive drills made his crew able to go to general quarters in under two minutes after intense practice.
Background and scope: panelists drew on decades of service and post-service work. Herring described work with the Center for Sustainable Energy and nonprofit environmental efforts; Squire described overseas assignments and later nonprofit roles; Turley described civilian ethics positions in the Department of Defense and the White House staff. The discussion ranged from tactical examples (carrier operations and ship handling) to strategic topics (cross-cultural cooperation, institutional training and civilian workplace ethics).
The program — attended by students, interns and community members — closed with panelists encouraging ongoing dialogue and saying they were optimistic about the next generation of leaders. "I'm looking at you," Squire told students. "I have a lot of faith in the integrity of the people in our armed forces."
A note on sources: quotes and attributions in this article come from the Hinckley Institute forum panelists and student questioners during the Oct. 5, 2025 session.